#tsu 20000624
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[00:00] <p0kopen> こ〜ば〜わ〜〜
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[00:00] <yfQfvki> やうめめちきのふえけらしおそしこしもおとけにきしわしえうます
[00:00] <yfQfvki> ことそろくまうみすきりかてをとほくみてしおふめしらまぬれむき
[00:00] <ikimania1> あわわ・・・
[00:00] <yfQfvki> けれはぬらめくれてないすはなしんえとまぬまやえつあろうぬらも
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[00:00] <isura> 今日は賑やかだわ^^;
[00:00] <Himself> ふふ、ギャラリーも騒いでますね 笑
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[00:02] <Himself> kazさんSJISでお願いします〜
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[00:02] <sss> こんばんわ〜
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[00:03] <Himself> 今晩は〜
[00:03] <ikimania1> こんばんわ〜
[00:03] <p0kopen> こ〜ば〜わ〜〜
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[00:03] <sss> ういっす。。
[00:03] <sss> こりゃ便利だ
[00:04] <Kaorin> こんばんわ
[00:04] <Himself> IRC初めて? >sss
[00:04] <isura> そういえば、m3e持ってる人とか居るのかな
[00:04] <proxylike> こんばんはぁ
[00:05] <sss> いあいあ
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[00:05] <ikimania1> 持ってますよ>m3e
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[00:05] <ikimania1> 使ったことは殆ど無いですけど>m3e
[00:05] <isura> 0.99aって最終だっけ?
[00:05] <ikimania1> 多分そうですね?0.99a
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[00:06] <isura> 欲しいのはもう片方、サイト閉める寸前に公開したのあったよね
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[00:07] <ikimania1> はーなるほどー何か音が違うとか・・
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[00:08] <isura> MP3作って、それと元WAVとの差分を作って、それから更にMP3作るとかいうの
[00:09] <Himself> なるほど...>差分 サイズは、大きく成るんだろうな〜
[00:09] <isura> この二つのMP3で高音質化云々って実験があったんだけど
[00:09] <ikimania1> へ〜
[00:09] <isura> もうすこし熟してから落とそうと思ってた矢先にサイトが消えた
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[00:10] <Bubblegum> えと(^-^;)
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[00:11] <ikimania1> F-IISが良いって言う人とダメって人もいますよね〜
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[00:11] <isura> ども
[00:11] <Bubblegum> こんばんわ(^-^;)
[00:11] <Kaorin> こんばんわぁ
[00:11] <Himself> 今晩は
[00:11] <Bubblegum> やっと話せた
[00:11] <p0kopen> こ〜ば〜わ〜〜
[00:11] <isura> プリエコーは抑えられてる感じだけどね
[00:11] <Himself> でも、サイズと音質ってのは相反するからね〜そこでどう妥協するか
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[00:12] <isura> WMAがもちっと使えるフォーマットだったら、、
[00:12] <ikimania1> JOINT-STEREOが基本的にダメとか?>F-IIS嫌いな人
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[00:12] <ikimania1> あれも変な暗号掛かってるんですよね?>WMA
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[00:13] <sss> ウマ万歳、、ぷぅ
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[00:13] <sss> Webからだと重いな
[00:13] <isura> 悪いとは思わないなぁ、LAMEと優劣はつけらんない。けど普段はLAME系
[00:13] <Bubblegum> 最近LAMEはいいですよね
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[00:14] <ikimania1> あ、やっぱそうですか?そう言う人は必ずLAMEが良いって言いますよね。
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[00:14] <Bubblegum> F-IISのが好きだけど(笑)
[00:14] <isura> あれ、ヤカンなくなった(´ー`;
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[00:14] <Bubblegum> LAMEの方がソース選ばないですね
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[00:15] <Himself> 私の場合、F-IIS改しか入れてない(^^;;
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[00:15] <Bubblegum> 改のVer2ってどうなんですか?
[00:15] <ikimania1> 私もそんなにmp3って使わないしF-イイSしか使ったこと無いですね〜
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[00:15] <isura> F-IISはCDexから叩いてます
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[00:16] <Himself> ver2! そんなのあったんですか? いつ頃出たんでしょう
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[00:16] <Bubblegum> お、MUTHAさん。
[00:17] <sss> V3じゃなくて?
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[00:17] <MUTHA> こんばんわ。
[00:17] <Bubblegum> んと、噂に聞いただけなんですけど
[00:17] <isura> あ、カラヤン狂さんのサイトにレポートあるよね
[00:17] <Bubblegum> V3?
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[00:17] <ikimania1> 私も知らないですねぇ。>ver2
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[00:17] <Bubblegum> なんか激速って噂だったので
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[00:17] <MUTHA> IRCに来るのは初めてだ>Bubblegum
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[00:18] <isura> ていうか、FastEncの話だよね?
[00:18] <Bubblegum> うんうん、こんばんは>MUTHA
[00:18] <ikimania1> コーデックが外部使用不可になってるのですか?>ver2
[00:18] <Himself> ふむ。速さだと、最近はマシンパワーも上がってきてますからね
[00:18] <Bubblegum> あれ?Rの字じゃないの?>改
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[00:18] <Himself> ra*d**mだと思ったけど(^^;;
[00:18] <isura> うち、未だに非MMXなんすけど(笑)
[00:18] <Bubblegum> 同じく(^-^;)
[00:18] <Himself> r*d**mだ(^^;;
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[00:19] <Bubblegum> Rっすね(^-^;)
[00:19] <ikimania1> へーそれは聞いたこと無いですねぇ。>r*d**m
[00:19] <Himself> oh! 笑 >非MMX Athronですか? 笑
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[00:19] <isura> いえいえ、Socket8・・・
[00:19] <sss> F-IISは1.263だね
[00:19] <ikimania1> へ〜proですか〜
[00:20] <MUTHA> いま、ウェブからやってるんだけど、大丈夫ですかね。
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[00:20] <Himself> spacechatですよね。ブラウザの、stop押さなければ、一定時間大丈夫でしょう
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[00:20] <proxylike> 大丈夫だとおもいます〜<ウェブから
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[00:21] <MUTHA> なにを話してるの?
[00:21] <GrCool> 一定時間なんですね。さっき止まってた(^^;
[00:21] <Bubblegum> いい加減、クライアントインストールしましょう>MUTHA
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[00:21] <Bubblegum> エンコーダの話、ですか?
[00:21] <ikimania1> 今はどのエンコーダが良いかって話ししてます。
[00:21] <MUTHA> ほいほい
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[00:21] <Himself> F-IIS改も 笑
[00:22] <Bubblegum> 改ですねえ(笑)
[00:22] <ikimania1> そんなものがあったのですねぇ>改
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[00:22] <Bubblegum> WEBでは話せませんからね(^-^;)>改
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[00:22] <Himself> あれって、サイズが下がるとか圧縮が速くなるとかそういう観点でいいのかな?
[00:22] <ikimania1> それは全然関係ない人が改造したものですか?
[00:23] <Bubblegum> クラック屋さんが改造した奴です
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[00:23] <Bubblegum> でも、すでに過去の遺物っぽいです
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[00:24] <ikimania1> なるほど・・・
[00:24] <sss> いまだに使ってる・・・
[00:24] <ikimania1> 私が良いってエンコーダで良いって良く耳にするのは
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[00:24] <ikimania1> F-IIS、M3Eとかですね。
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[00:25] <sss> AAPSからコーデックだけ抜き出した>ラジ○ム
[00:25] <Bubblegum> M3Eは人気ですよね。
[00:25] <isura> なぜか午後のこ〜だが出てこない(笑) LAME系だけどさ、
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[00:25] <GrCool> 午後速いっすよ(^^
[00:25] <sss> 午後は早いだけ・・・か
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[00:26] <ikimania1> どうなんですか?速さはよしとして午後は音が良いのですか?
[00:26] <Bubblegum> ちょっと聴きの時は午後でキマリです(笑)
[00:26] <isura> 普段はアレで十分そうです
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[00:26] <Himself> え、音まずいんですか(^^;;
[00:26] <p0kopen> おでも午後使ってる〜
[00:26] <isura> 速いから悪いとは一概に言えないっす
[00:26] <ikimania1> そんでもショぼいPCスピーカだとどれもそんなに変わらないような気も・・・
[00:26] <isura> が、LAMEのバージョンとしては古いですな
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[00:26] <Bubblegum> 心理なんとかをオンにすると高音部が歪むような気がします>午後
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[00:27] <GrCool> はい、私のPCはしょぼいのでどのエンコーダーでもあまり・・・。耳も・・・(^^;;
[00:27] <kaz> ども。今度は大丈夫ですか? >文字コード
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[00:27] <Himself> OKです>文字コード
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[00:27] <kaz> ^^)。改めてお話に入れてください。
[00:27] <isura> ども
[00:27] <sss> 音気にしないならウマでいい
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[00:28] <ikimania1> 昔、使った事あるけどXingはひどかったですね。
[00:28] <Himself> MP3の圧縮法の名前って、すげー物々しい名前でしたね〜 笑
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[00:28] <MUTHA> 僕もお話に入れてください(笑
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[00:28] <Bubblegum> 初期のXINGはきつかったですね(笑)
[00:28] <Himself> Xing (^^;; mp2のをタダで配ってなかったかな〜
[00:28] <isura> こないだ、8Hz-mp3取ってきて使いました(笑
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[00:29] <Bubblegum> な、懐かしい>8hz
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[00:29] <ikimania1> どぞどぞ>MUTHAさん
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[00:29] <ikimania1> 今はどうなんでしょ?>Xing
[00:29] <Bubblegum> 悪くは無い、と思いますよ>XING
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[00:29] <MUTHA> ども
[00:29] <isura> 思い出の一品ですね>8hz
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[00:29] <ikimania1> へー良くはなってるんですね。
[00:30] <Bubblegum> 思いでです。当時は感動モノでした>8hz
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[00:30] <ikimania1> 反対にF-IISは悪くなってるらしいですね。NEROについてるのとか。
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[00:31] <Bubblegum> HQモードだと以上に遅いんですよねえ>F‐IISの最新
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[00:31] <ikimania1> 音もわるくなってるとか?
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[00:31] <isura> へなちょこだけど、なんか好き^^;>8hz
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[00:31] <Bubblegum> って噂です>新F-IIS
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[00:32] <Bubblegum> 8hzはシュワシュワしちゃって(^-^;)
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[00:32] <MUTHA> Vorbisはどうなんですかね
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[00:32] <Bubblegum> 試してみたけど、かなり使えます>Vorbis
[00:32] <ikimania1> Vorbisって何ですか?
[00:32] <Bubblegum> AACの出てきた頃よりは格段に良い
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[00:33] <sss> まだ試してないな。。
[00:33] <Bubblegum> http://www.vorbis.com/
[00:33] <Bubblegum> オーディオ版PNGとか言われてます
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[00:33] <MUTHA> T@
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[00:34] <MUTHA> DQYW@R9,
[00:34] <ikimania1> へー
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[00:34] <MUTHA> ありゃ
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[00:34] <Bubblegum> MP3みたいなパテント問題が無いんですよ。
[00:34] <ikimania1> どうですか?音は?>Vorbis
[00:34] <Himself> フォーマットですか>オーディオ版PNG
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[00:34] <Bubblegum> そそ、フォーマットです
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[00:35] <ikimania1> Winampで聴けるようにしてくれてるのは良いですね
[00:35] <Bubblegum> 私はかなり良いと思いますが、自分で試してみるのが一番でしょう(^-^;)
[00:35] <MUTHA> iCastが開発したんですよね<Vorbis
[00:35] <GrCool> MP3よりは少しおちるかな。今から更に良くなるでしょうが。
[00:35] <Bubblegum> iCastはスポンサーですね。
[00:35] <ikimania1> へー
[00:36] <isura> うちではCPU4割食われる・・・<ogg再生
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[00:36] <Himself> へ〜 そうなると、一掃音源の拡散に貢献しそうだ...
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[00:36] <Himself> 一層
[00:36] <ikimania1> MP3がこんだけメジャーになったのはヘンな暗号とか掛かってなかったからでしょうねぇ。
[00:36] <Bubblegum> 少なくともWMAあたりよりは使えるかと。
[00:36] <ikimania1> そう、考えるとVorbisも結構いけるかも?
[00:37] <Bubblegum> 期待してます。
[00:37] <sss> WMAよりクルか
[00:37] <GrCool> パテントフリーは安心できる
[00:37] <MUTHA> WMAファイルで著作権保護とか
[00:37] <Himself> winamp出だした頃はへぼいパソコンしか持ってなかったから音飛びばっかで途中までしかmp3再生できなかったです 笑
[00:37] <Bubblegum> 出出した頃って、、、、
[00:37] <MUTHA> PC変えると再生できなくなるのですかね<WMA
[00:38] <Bubblegum> ATRAC3はモロにそうですね>PC変えるとダメ
[00:38] <ikimania1> MP3に危機感感じて音楽配信のフォーマット色々出来てますがあの値段であんなフォーマットじゃ全然ダメですね・・
[00:38] <Bubblegum> つうか、OpenMG
[00:38] <MUTHA> 例えば自作PCT
[00:38] <ikimania1> へー>ATRAC3
[00:38] <MUTHA> あれー
[00:39] <Himself> win3.1用のへぼいプレーヤ使っていて、バッファがいっぱいになると一時停止して...ってやってました。
[00:39] <isura> 使う側のこと考えてないと、エラいことになるね
[00:39] <MUTHA> 自作PCとか頻繁にマザーボードとか変えたりするんだけど
[00:39] <MUTHA> どこを認識してるんでしょうかね
[00:39] <Bubblegum> んーー、どうなんでしょう>認識
[00:39] <ikimania1> 私のPen133マシンでもそうでした。。。>音飛び
[00:40] <MUTHA> リキッドもだめですよ
[00:40] <ikimania1> Liquid最低ですね。。
[00:40] <MUTHA> やっぱCPUですかね
[00:40] <Bubblegum> ま、どんなフォーマットでもどうにかPCMに落とせるでしょうし(^-^;)
[00:40] <MUTHA> ID番号とかあるじゃないですか
[00:40] <ikimania1> 暴走ばっかしで殆ど聴けた試し無しです。金返せ〜!
[00:40] <Himself> 認識って、プロテクト? それとも仕様? 笑
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[00:41] <Himself> ははは>暴走 ソニーのメモリスティックの奴とかどうなってるんでしょ
[00:41] <isura> 権利を守るために高い垣根で囲ったら、景観損ねるよね。。
[00:41] <GrCool> そうそうPCMに落としてしまえば関係なし(^^;;
[00:41] <Bubblegum> LiquidPlayer、デカ過ぎ(笑)
[00:42] <ikimania1> 重いし・・>LiquidPlayer
[00:42] <Bubblegum> 一曲聞くためにあんなデカイプレーヤ落とすのは辛いです
[00:42] <GrCool> ダウンロード完了した事ない(汗)>LiquidPlayer
[00:43] <Himself> 落としたこと無いんですが、どのくらい?>サイズ
[00:43] <ikimania1> あ、やっぱみんなそうですか。最低ですね。>Liquid
[00:43] <Bubblegum> 余計な機能要らないから小さい版も出してほしい
[00:43] <ikimania1> 3MBほどですね>Liquid
[00:43] <Himself> あと、3分の曲だとサイズはどんなもんです?
[00:43] <isura> 44k16bit2chで80/96kbps
[00:43] <ikimania1> あ、MP3と同じです。
[00:44] <sss> AACだよね
[00:44] <isura> え、そんなでかくなんの?
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[00:44] <ikimania1> 違ったっけ?確か私が購入したのは何かMP3と同じとかどうとか書いてあったような?
[00:44] <Himself> へえ〜
[00:44] <GrCool> LiquidってMP3とかAACに著作権保護機能を載せた物なのか?
[00:45] <Bubblegum> そうみたいですね
[00:45] <isura> ちょいめし
[00:45] <MUTHA> 5.0からAACをサポートしました
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[00:45] <Himself> プロテクトの部分は、そういう「焼き印押し」ソフトがあるのか。
[00:46] <Himself> DeCSSみたいの出ないかな 笑
[00:46] <MUTHA> CDの焼き付けも直接できます
[00:46] <ikimania1> 後、CDに2回かなんか制限付きで焼けるんだけどYAMAHAとplexter以外は殆ど使えないし・・
[00:46] <ikimania1> マジでクソ・・・>Liquid
[00:46] <Bubblegum> ん・・じゃ、そのCDをリップしてMP3に(^-^;)
[00:47] <GrCool> 結局MP3に戻るという(^^)
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[00:47] <Himself> CDって、CloneCDみたいなのでraw rip/writeできないのかしら(^^;;
[00:47] <Bubblegum> 他のフォーマットは扱いづらいですから
[00:47] <ikimania1> でも再圧縮すると音悪くなりませんか?
[00:48] <Bubblegum> 多少は我慢です。どうせ最初から圧縮されてるし(笑)
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[00:48] <ikimania1> 多分出来るでしょう。あのSCMSってのはひっかるかかるでしょうがPC用はハナから関係ないし(笑
[00:48] <Himself> やっぱし、妥協は肝心ですね(^^;; ハードウェアなんかも、最近は容量とか充実してきたんじゃないかな
[00:48] <Bubblegum> 何回も再圧縮してみるって実験もおもしろいかも(笑)
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[00:49] <MUTHA> これでもレコード会社は本気で考えてるフォーマットですよ
[00:49] <ikimania1> アホですねぇ・・・
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[00:50] <Bubblegum> 考えてるのは利益のことばっかりですからねぇ・・・
[00:50] <Bubblegum> しかも、目先の。
[00:50] <GrCool> MP3とか使った事なかったりして(笑)
[00:50] <ikimania1> って言うかCDを購入する理由ってパッケージとか色々付いてて物を所有するっていう満足感があるから
[00:50] <Himself> LiquidAudioみたいな所を育てるのには必要なんでしょう 笑
[00:50] <ikimania1> 多分、音楽配信はあんな値段じゃ成功しないんじゃないかな?
[00:50] <Bubblegum> 育つのかな(^-^;)>リキッド
[00:51] <GrCool> 育つ前に潰れそうだなぁ
[00:51] <Bubblegum> 350円じゃ、CD買ったほうがいいよね
[00:51] <isura> おいしかったぁ
[00:51] <Bubblegum> レンタルなんかもっと安いし
[00:51] <MUTHA> 価格より決済システムですね
[00:51] <Bubblegum> ・・・
[00:51] <Bubblegum> カード持ってないし・・・
[00:51] <isura> 配信の値段はトチ狂ってるね^^;
[00:52] <MUTHA> 100円でも100円玉では買えないし
[00:52] <ikimania1> そうそう。だからコピーユーザと購入ユーザとは本質的に別な物って認識が無いとダメですよね。
[00:52] <Bubblegum> プリペイドカードもいろいろあって混乱しますしね
[00:53] <Bubblegum> 値段下げないなら、何か付加価値をつけて欲しい。
[00:53] <MUTHA> どこまで売ってない<プリペイドカード
[00:53] <ikimania1> MP3で違法にアップロードされてるから音楽配信ってのは何かあまりにも安直ですね。
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[00:54] <Bubblegum> うん、そのままの形で有料化しただけですしね
[00:54] <ikimania1> 考えてることがあまりにも短絡的・・
[00:54] <Himself> データ以外になんかもらえないのかな?
[00:54] <MUTHA> 会員制の有料配信なんかはどう思いますか?
[00:54] <GrCool> こんな事だから違法サイトは一向に無くならない。
[00:55] <Bubblegum> ソニーは自らあんまりやる気が無いって言ってたし(笑)
[00:55] <ikimania1> そもそもがデジタルデータだから所有してるっていう満足感が全然ないし。
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[00:55] <isura> やっぱ欲しいモンはCD買うし
[00:55] <Bubblegum> んー、私は音さえ聴ければそれで満足ですが
[00:55] <GrCool> CDRとかに焼かないとPCでしか聞けないし
[00:55] <Himself> e-ビジネス、IT革命の旗手だから、色んな所が保護してるんでしょう 笑
[00:55] <ikimania1> そうですよね。私もそう>isuraさん
[00:55] <isura> 試聴は歓迎なんだけどね
[00:56] <Himself> カラオケ配信みたいなのはいいかもしれないけど 笑
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[00:56] <Bubblegum> そいえばカラオケMP3配信始まりましたね。洋楽だけど。
[00:57] <isura> カラオケは割と早く配信に移動したから、うまいこといってるね
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[00:57] <ikimania1> へ〜>カラオケ
[00:57] <Bubblegum> どこでしたっけ?>MUTHA
[00:57] <isura> といっても、MIDIデータに毛を生やしたものか^^;
[00:58] <Bubblegum> あ、落ちてら(^-^;)
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[00:59] <isura> 賑やか
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[01:00] <ikimania1> ヽ(´ー`)ノ
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[01:00] <Himself> むふふ、一段と華やかになっております 笑
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[01:00] <Bubblegum> 凄いな
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[01:01] <isura> 盛り上がってる(´ー`
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[01:01] <Himself> MP3にノイズが乗った〜 笑
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[01:01] <ikimania1> どうですかね?結局MP3って音良いですかね?
[01:01] <isura> そういえば、SCMPXでエンコードして、たまに化けまくりのデータできません?
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[01:02] <ikimania1> CDと比べると私は全然音悪いと思うんですが・・
[01:02] <Himself> 音が軽い感じですね>MP3
[01:02] <gtd> こんばんは
[01:02] <Bubblegum> 本気で「音」を聞いちゃうと俄然ダメですよね
[01:02] <Himself> 今晩は
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[01:02] <isura> 192kbpsくらいまでレート上げれば、あたしには十分
[01:03] <Bubblegum> PCで聞く分にはわからないけど
[01:03] <ikimania1> ですね。
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[01:03] <isura> つか、128kbpsって最低ラインだと思うんだけど・・・
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[01:03] <ikimania1> 高音域がバッサリ切られちゃうでしょ?
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[01:03] <Bubblegum> オーディオとか携帯機で聴いちゃうと辛いことも。
[01:03] <Himself> ゲームなんかでも、圧縮が良いのでMP3使っているのがあったな
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[01:04] <isura> デコードチップがあるから、容量減らしにもってこいですね
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[01:04] <isura> 量産でも安心
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[01:04] <Bubblegum> 結局メリットは容量だけなんですかね?
[01:05] <isura> 音が良くなる事は無さそうだしね^^;
[01:05] <Bubblegum> それは無茶です(^-^;)
[01:05] <Bubblegum> でも
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[01:05] <Bubblegum> データ化してHDDに保存することで
[01:05] <ikimania1> そうですね。結局太い線がはりめぐっていたらWAVでも言い訳ですから。
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[01:05] <Bubblegum> いろんな情報を付加して管理できるのが有りがたい
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[01:05] <ikimania1> 勿論もっと大容量なHDDやリムーバブルメディアもいるでしょうが。
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[01:06] <isura> CD-Rに焼いてカーステで聴けるようになりましたし
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[01:06] <Himself> ストリームのデータ配信もあるけど、やっぱmp3なんかコンパクトにコレクションできるとか
[01:06] <isura> ポータブルプレーヤーも出してくださいよ、KENWOODサン
[01:06] <Bubblegum> HDDが1000GBぐらいあればWAVEで保存してもいいけど(笑)
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[01:07] <ikimania1> それは私もよくやりますね。>CD-Rでカーステ
[01:07] <isura> 画像や動画と一緒で集めると際限無いから、HDDどれだけあってもダメかも^^;
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[01:07] <Himself> YMO全曲集とか、あの類の企画も可能になるということはある
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[01:07] <Bubblegum> あれはビックリした>YMO
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[01:08] <Himself> ただ、64とかじゃなかったですか>YMO
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[01:08] <ikimania1> 坂本龍一はネット配信とかについて独自のスタンス持ってる見たいですね。
[01:08] <Bubblegum> いや、買ってはいないので(^-^;
[01:08] <bgc004040> 生waveだと5分程度のものをcdからリップして再生するにはどのくらいのスペックが必要でしょうかね
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[01:08] <Himself> あたしも買ってません 笑 >YMO
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[01:09] <Bubblegum> 50MBぐらいでは>WAVE5分
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[01:09] <bgc004040> メモリはどのくらい必要でしょうか
[01:10] <ikimania1> メモリは32MBもあったらじゅうぶんじゃないですか?
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[01:10] <Bubblegum> 普通にOSが動いてれば大丈夫では?>メモリ
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[01:10] <Himself> wavは、圧縮されてないから展開する必要ないでしょう
[01:10] <bgc004040> 32じゃうんともすんともいわなくなるんです
[01:11] <ikimania1> そりゃメモリの問題じゃ無いのでは?
[01:11] <Bubblegum> んー、WINですか?
[01:11] <bgc004040> そうですか
[01:11] <bgc004040> はい
[01:11] <Himself> ファイルがでかいせいですかね〜
[01:11] <Bubblegum> サウンドレコーダーで開いちゃダメです
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[01:12] <bgc004040> わかりました
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[01:12] <Bubblegum> さうんどれこーだーはメモリ上に全部展開しちゃうので(-_-;)>50MB
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[01:12] <gtd> φ(..)メモメモ
[01:12] <Himself> あ、そうなのか(^^;;
[01:12] <ikimania1> ですね。>サウンドレコーダ
[01:12] <Bubblegum> WINAMPとかなら多分大丈夫だと思います
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[01:13] <gtd> それは知らなかったぁ
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[01:13] <Bubblegum> スワップしまくりで死ねます>サウンドレコーダ
[01:13] <ikimania1> もともと非圧縮なので負荷は再生負荷はMP3より小さいのではないでしょうか?>WAV
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[01:14] <Bubblegum> CPU負荷は低いけど、メモリ負荷(笑)が
[01:14] <Himself> 50MBのmp3とかあったら凄いな 笑
[01:14] <ikimania1> ギャハハ!そうですね。
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[01:14] <isura> ノンストップリミックスとか(笑)>Himself
[01:14] <Bubblegum> 50MBのMPEGなら嬉しいですけどね(笑)
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[01:15] <Himself> なるほど(笑 >ノンストップ
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[01:15] <Bubblegum> なんか四方山話になってる(笑)
[01:15] <isura> ノンストップで思い出した
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[01:16] <isura> トラックごとにMP3にしてしまった場合、ノンストップだった場合
[01:16] <isura> 継ぎ目が問題になりますね
[01:16] <ikimania1> ふむふむ。
[01:16] <isura> せめて、マーカー打ち込めるフォーマットだったら良かったのに
[01:17] <isura> ビデオテープにVISS書きこむように(笑)
[01:17] <Himself> 継ぎ目は、フェイドアウトするとか? CD architectで、好きな曲繋げてCD作る場合とか色々編集するのに
[01:17] <ikimania1> なるほどね〜
[01:17] <Himself> HDDとかメモリとか一杯要るね
[01:17] <isura> ノンストップがフェードアウトしちゃダメですよ(笑
[01:18] <Himself> あ、完全ノンストップね (^^;;
[01:18] <Himself> そもそもそういう使い方が予想されていなかったとか
[01:19] <isura> ですね、技術自体は新しくないですし
[01:19] <ikimania1> そうかも知れませんね〜そもそもベンダーによって音も違うし
[01:19] <ikimania1> 細かいところまで煮詰まって無かったと見るべきかも?
[01:20] <Bubblegum> プレーヤーの設計によっては可能なのでは?>継ぎ目
[01:20] <Himself> CDで、あえてノンストップにしてるのもありますよ。1トラックで。
[01:20] <ikimania1> へーそりゃ又スゴイCDだ!>1トラック
[01:20] <isura> 継ぎ目に不整合が起こると思います
[01:21] <Bubblegum> んー、ヘッダをちゃんと解析して繋いで再生させようと思えば出来るんじゃないかなあ
[01:22] <isura> 直行変換されてますから、どうなんでしょう
[01:22] <Bubblegum> 作れ、といわれても困るけど(^-^;)
[01:23] <ikimania1> 再生プチするときの初めのプチッも対策が難しいですからねぇ。
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[01:23] <Bubblegum> そいえば
[01:24] <Bubblegum> JointStereoのシュワシュワもフレーム毎の不整合と言えなくもないかも(笑)
[01:24] <isura> プリエコー、気になるんですよ
[01:24] <Bubblegum> アレが一番機になりますね
[01:24] <Bubblegum> 気
[01:24] <Himself> 理論的には気にならない? 笑
[01:25] <ikimania1> ただ、あのサイズじゃどう頑張ってもこれくらいの音でしょうねぇ。
[01:25] <Himself> Jointでどのくらい変わるかな
[01:25] <Bubblegum> ですねえ。でも、徐々によくなってますよね
[01:25] <isura> ビットレート上げて対処してください(笑)
[01:27] <isura> みなさんプレーヤーは何をお使いですか?Winamp多そう
[01:27] <ikimania1> Winampですね。
[01:27] <Bubblegum> 秘密です
[01:27] <Himself> WinampとSoniqueかな...
[01:27] <ikimania1> たまに他のも使うけど基本的にWinampですね。
[01:28] <isura> mp3のプライマリはAudioActiveです。Winamp長時間再生で落ちる・・・
[01:28] <isura> ワトソン博士出てきます(笑)
[01:28] <ikimania1> あらら・・・落ちますか・・
[01:28] <Himself> K-jofolスキンに惹かれて使ったけどなんか安定性が...(^^;;
[01:28] <Bubblegum> (笑)
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[01:29] <Bubblegum> そいえば「暴走する萌えスキン」なんて議題も用意されてましたね
[01:29] <isura> k-jofolはスペクトル表示カッコいいかな
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[01:29] <gtd> scmpxだぁ・・(汗
[01:29] <isura> よさげなスキンって、なかなかないですね
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[01:29] <Himself> ええ(笑 >萌えスキン
[01:29] <Bubblegum> 格好よくても使いづらいのが多いです
[01:30] <isura> 携帯にシール張るかのようなスキン多すぎ
[01:30] <Bubblegum> 暴走するって言うとやっぱりグラマラスパッドとかあの辺でしょうか(^-^;)
[01:30] <Himself> ドラッグして動かしたら...笑
[01:31] <isura> winampサイトで見つけたPACMANや魔女宅のスキン見やすくていいですよ
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[01:31] <ikimania1> へ〜そんなのあるんですか〜
[01:31] <Bubblegum> 死体や髑髏の使いやすいスキンは無いでしょうか(笑)
[01:31] <ikimania1> 私はデフォルトでしか使ったこと無いですね。>Winamp
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[01:31] <Himself> 自分で作りましょう 笑 >死体
[01:32] <isura> 本家サイト、閲覧するの困難なくらい置いてます
[01:32] <isura> 閲覧 → 全部閲覧
[01:32] <Bubblegum> んーー、、作っても公開できないな(^-^;)>死体
[01:32] <Bubblegum> ぜ、全部見たんですか??
[01:33] <isura> 見ませんよ(笑
[01:33] <Bubblegum> そりゃ、そうか(^-^;)
[01:33] <ikimania1> プラグインもかなり置いてますよね。
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[01:34] <Bubblegum> プラグインあってナンボですよね。WINAMP。
[01:34] <Himself> winampは、元のskinがダサイですね 笑
[01:35] <ikimania1> 私はMPG123のデコーダとかREALAUDIOやTWINVQくらいしか入ってませんが。>プラグイン
[01:35] <Bubblegum> 初期から基本は変わってないからなあ(^-^;)
[01:35] <Himself> 堅実というべきか
[01:35] <Bubblegum> MPG123、どうなんでしょうか。
[01:35] <isura> MPG123/VQF/WMA/OGGあたり入れといれます
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[01:36] <ikimania1> あ、良いですよ
[01:36] <Himself> プラグインはグライコの綺麗な奴があれば個人的にはOK
[01:36] <Bubblegum> 音、ですか?
[01:36] <isura> ゼヒ入れましょう
[01:36] <ikimania1> 全然音が違いますよ。>MPG123
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[01:36] <Bubblegum> いや、入れてるんだけど(^-^;)
[01:36] <Bubblegum> ストリーミングとかもどうもおかしいし
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[01:36] <ikimania1> あ、ストりーみんぐは聴かないからな〜
[01:37] <isura> ストリーミングでつかわない^^;
[01:37] <Bubblegum> こないだまではF-IISのDLL使ってたんですが
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[01:37] <isura> 聴いたとしても、MSのらぢお
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[01:38] <ikimania1> 私は3DNow!使えるからって理由でNullSoftの使ってたのですが。
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[01:38] <ikimania1> やっぱしMPG123の方が全然良いですね。もう戻れません。
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[01:38] <isura> 再生時の負荷が問題になる環境もそう無いでしょ、MP3なら^^;
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[01:39] <ikimania1> そうですね。余程のショボマシンでないと。
[01:39] <Bubblegum> 最近は国産のプレーヤも凄いですよね。
[01:39] <Bubblegum> 中身はほとんどFreeAmpだけど。
[01:40] <isura> Play2000next、VBR対応まだかな
[01:40] <Himself> どの辺が有望株ですか>国産
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[01:41] <Bubblegum> どの辺が人気なんでしょうか。
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[01:41] <Bubblegum> 私も知りたいです(笑)
[01:41] <isura> 付加価値勝負になりますね
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[01:42] <Bubblegum> んー、名前をよく聞くのはPlay2000とWybernですよね、やっぱり。
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[01:42] <Bubblegum> 個人的にはKbMediaPlayerが一番凄いと思ってますが。
[01:42] <ikimania1> へ〜どんなのですか?>Play2000とWybern
[01:42] <isura> 今でも国産はこんなものだって考えると、SCMPXって偉大だなぁ、
[01:43] <Bubblegum> 両方ともサイズが小さくて、MP3専用です
[01:43] <ikimania1> へ〜
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[01:43] <Bubblegum> Play2000はWINAMPタイプ、WybernはApolloタイプかな。
[01:43] <Himself> ふむふむ
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[01:44] <Bubblegum> どちらもまだ発展途上ですが、使いやすいです。
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[01:44] <ikimania1> 昔あったZ'sX Lightningってのはどうですか?
[01:44] <Bubblegum> SCMPXよりも使い勝手は上だと思う
[01:44] <ikimania1> 小さくてなかなか良いですよ。
[01:44] <Bubblegum> Z'sXはよかったですよね
[01:45] <ikimania1> まーもう止まっちゃったからあれですけど。。
[01:45] <ikimania1> たまに使いますね。
[01:45] <Bubblegum> ただ、再生出来ないファイルが多過ぎますよね
[01:45] <ikimania1> 後ね。
[01:45] <Bubblegum> RMPもVBRもダメだし・・・
[01:45] <ikimania1> 奇抜なデザインのsoritongもたまに使いますね。(笑
[01:46] <ikimania1> 重いしショボいんだけど何かニクめないの。。(笑
[01:46] <Bubblegum> Soritong!大好きだったのに、止まっちゃいましたね。
[01:46] <Bubblegum> 後継のSAPに期待してますが
[01:46] <Bubblegum> こっちも更新されない(・_;)
[01:46] <ikimania1> どうなっちゃうんだろ?
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[01:47] <Bubblegum> もう更新されないような気がする・・・
[01:47] <ikimania1> ですね〜
[01:48] <ikimania1> 残念です。あの丸いデザインは秀逸です!
[01:48] <Bubblegum> ハングルがまた渋い!(笑)
[01:48] <Himself> Sotirongか〜tidalでも随分取り上げられてましたね
[01:48] <ikimania1> そそ・・・ハングル
[01:49] <Himself> soritong
[01:49] <Bubblegum> タイダルもかなり気に入ってたみたいですね。
[01:49] <ikimania1> ですねぇ。TIDALで作った日本語化キット使っても良いかってメールが来て無視したとか言ってましたね(笑
[01:50] <Bubblegum> ソレ多分嘘ですよ(笑)>無視
[01:50] <ikimania1> あ、そうなんだ(笑
[01:50] <Bubblegum> その後連絡取ってるようなこと臭わせてたし(笑)
[01:50] <ikimania1> 英語が出来ないので無視しました!とか言って爆笑しましたよ。
[01:51] <Himself> ははは 笑 >無視
[01:52] <Bubblegum> バカなフリしてるからなあ(笑)
[01:52] <ikimania1> 何かMP3も行くところまで行ってしまったのかな?
[01:52] <Bubblegum> この先尻すぼみになりそうな気もしますね
[01:52] <ikimania1> 逮捕者も出たし、バカスカ新曲がアプされてるし・・
[01:53] <ikimania1> ですね。。
[01:53] <M_A_D> 個人的には「今だからこそできる」「今しかできない」って考えてます
[01:53] <M_A_D> 尻すぼみ...って感じですね。確かに。
[01:53] <Bubblegum> 新曲は、買う気しないですね。
[01:53] <Himself> 行くところといえば、GnutellaとかNapsterみたいな物かな
[01:53] <Bubblegum> 探さなくてもそこらじゅうに落ちてる。
[01:53] <Bubblegum> アレはどう
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[01:54] <Bubblegum> アレはどう思います?>Napとか
[01:54] <ikimania1> 個人的にはね。この間Chaosさんが言ってたように廃盤になったものとか買えない物とかは大目に見てあげてもって気がしますね。
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[01:55] <ikimania1> レアとか勝手に決めつけてバカみたいな値段で売りつけるのはほんとにやめて欲しい・・
[01:55] <Bubblegum> 私は、Napとかも結局WEBと同じで取り締まるべきだと思う。
[01:55] <ikimania1> ふむふむ・・
[01:55] <Kaorin> 廃盤萌え
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[01:55] <M_A_D> 何がレアで何がレアじゃないんだか...
[01:56] <Bubblegum> コピーしちゃえばレアも糞も無いです(笑)
[01:56] <M_A_D> 笑
[01:56] <ikimania1> 売ってないのでメーカーにももはや利益が発生しないし>廃盤
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[01:56] <M_A_D> 逆にこういう形でしか入手できないですよね>廃盤
[01:56] <ikimania1> ですね。
[01:57] <Bubblegum> そうですね。あとはトレードとか
[01:57] <Kaorin> インディーズ時代のデモテとか手に入らないものは手に入らないから、、
[01:57] <Kaorin> 売ってすらいないものもたくさんあるし、、
[01:57] <M_A_D> 純粋に「音としての価値」だけ評価されるってのはすごく面白いとは思うんですが...
[01:58] <M_A_D> 単に珍しがられてるだけかも(^^;
[01:58] <Bubblegum> ソレ専用のGnutellaネットワークとかつくったら面白そうかも(笑)>廃盤
[01:58] <ikimania1> そうですねぇ。>音としての価値
[02:00] <Kaorin> でも、アプすると法に触れるから面倒くさいなぁ
[02:00] <M_A_D> ここ最近、違法性をあんま考えないでmp3を扱う人がすごく増えているような気がするんですが。
[02:01] <M_A_D> 私もそんなに長くはないですが...
[02:01] <Bubblegum> あれは危険ですよね
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[02:01] <isura> 何が違法かわかってない人多いなあ
[02:01] <Bubblegum> なんか、敢えて泳がせてるような気がするし。
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[02:02] <ikimania1> それはあるような気がしますね>泳がせ
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[02:02] <M_A_D> 煽りに対する回答に、逆に閉口してしまうような事言ってる方が多い...
[02:02] <Himself> 一曲なら小さい違法だけど、それがネット全体とも成ると総量は凄いから
[02:02] <M_A_D> そう遠くないうちに、何か起こりますかね...
[02:02] <ikimania1> と、思いますよ。
[02:02] <Kaorin> でも、取り締まるっていってもきりがないような、、
[02:02] <Bubblegum> いろいろ体裁が整った後に、一気に攻勢にでるんじゃないでしょうか
[02:03] <ikimania1> 違法行為を平然と続けられるほど世の中甘くないと思います。
[02:03] <isura> 検挙のためには仕方ないかな<泳がせ
[02:03] <Bubblegum> 過去に摘発された件で損害賠償額がわかるのって無いですかね。
[02:03] <M_A_D> 実質上、正確な損害金額はまずわからないでしょうね
[02:03] <Bubblegum> 具体的な数字を見れば、かなり抑止力になりそうだけど。
[02:04] <isura> 判例の情報って確かに知りたいね
[02:04] <Bubblegum> 抑止するつもりはサラサラありませんが(笑)
[02:04] <ikimania1> カウンタで算定するみたいですね>損害金額
[02:04] <M_A_D> カウンタ設置やめようかな(笑
[02:04] <ikimania1> 刑事裁判は多分略式命令とかが多いと思うので対した判例じゃないでしょう。
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[02:05] <Bubblegum> 第一号(北海道)は民事もありましたよね
[02:05] <ikimania1> 民事も本人が支払うって言ったら荒そう意味がないので裁判まで行くかどうかってのもあるだろうし。
[02:05] <M_A_D> 額にもよるかな...
[02:05] <Bubblegum> 支払える額なんだろうか(^-^;)
[02:05] <M_A_D> コワ
[02:05] <ikimania1> ↑荒そう=争う
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[02:12] <M_A_D> そうですね...
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[02:12] <isura> 抑止力にはなるけど、でも、無くならないだろうな。まあそれは別の問題か
[02:12] <ikimania1> 高くても利益の内訳を公表する事になりかねないし。
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[02:12] <Bubblegum> でも、ワレズなんかだと必ず「○千万支払ったらしい」とか噂が立ちますよね
[02:13] <Bubblegum> そういうのが全然無い。
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[02:13] <ikimania1> ダウンロードするのは違法じゃないなんて馬鹿な事言うの輩もいますしね。
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[02:13] <isura> あぁ、CD持っていれば問題無いとか48時間以内に消せばイイとか(笑
[02:14] <Bubblegum> (笑)>48時間
[02:14] <M_A_D> 誰が決めたんだ...
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[02:14] <Himself> 48時間は、他でも見るね 笑
[02:14] <isura> 根拠不明(ぷぷ
[02:14] <p0kopen> ローカルルールだ(笑)
[02:14] <ikimania1> そうそう。結局不法行為が立証できさえすればどんな形でも認定出来ますから。。
[02:15] <ikimania1> ただ、裁判に勝っても相手方に支払い能力がなければ結局無い袖は振れませんって事になるから民事裁判ってのは殆ど無いのではないでしょうか?
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[02:16] <Himself> でも、取れるだけは取るでしょうから...
[02:16] <isura> 可能な限り搾る
[02:16] <p0kopen> ローン組めばいいし
[02:16] <ikimania1> 強制執行にしろ財産が無ければ意味がないし。勤め人で無ければ給料からも差し押さえ出来ないし。
[02:17] <isura> 本当に特殊な場合を除き、生活してるんだからどうにでもなるんでない?
[02:17] <Himself> 裁判費用くらいは、パソコン持ってる人間の全体財産からは捻出できるんじゃないかな
[02:17] <ikimania1> あ、それはダメです。給料から差し押さえも何割か決まっていたはずです。
[02:17] <Bubblegum> 未成年だと親が大変(^-^;)
[02:18] <ikimania1> そうですね。>親
[02:18] <isura> どうあんだろうねぇ、
[02:18] <M_A_D> 払う金が無いなら禁固刑ってずっと思ってました←馬鹿
[02:19] <Bubblegum> ん、交通事故なんかはそうだったかも>払えないと収監
[02:19] <Himself> 刑事はお金より恐いので
[02:19] <ikimania1> あ、刑事の場合は全部そうですよ。>払えないと労役
[02:20] <M_A_D> あ、ありがとうございます、そうなのか...
[02:20] <isura> 民事と刑事じゃ話が変わるのねん
[02:20] <Bubblegum> 払えないから悪さしないようにしよう(^-^;)
[02:21] <ikimania1> そうですねぇ。つまんないことだけど前科一犯になっちゃいますから。
[02:21] <isura> というか、知れ渡ると肩身狭いよ
[02:21] <isura> 社会的制裁
[02:21] <ikimania1> なのに、違法じゃないとか認識の低い人多すぎ・・
[02:22] <isura> みんなとっ捕まえて啓蒙活動のボランティアへ(笑)
[02:22] <Himself> ははは、交通みたいだ 笑 >ボランティア
[02:23] <ikimania1> でも裁判はなかなか面白いですよ。機会があったら訴えてみましょう(爆
[02:23] <M_A_D> 機会があれば(笑
[02:23] <ikimania1> 基本的にタダですから。
[02:23] <isura> 機会があれば傍聴します(笑
[02:23] <Himself> 案外、一定確率で違法行動が起こると思うとそういうのもいいかも>ボランティア
[02:24] <ikimania1> ははは。そうですね>ボランティア
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[02:25] <isura> 同様の悪事を働く者を探し出して摘発させるとか
[02:25] <ikimania1> それ良いかも?
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[02:26] <M_A_D> 芋づる式にかかますね〜、そうなったら..
[02:26] <Himself> 強制webサーフィンか 笑
[02:26] <Bubblegum> 啓蒙じゃ無いじゃん(笑)
[02:26] <ikimania1> 笑
[02:26] <M_A_D> 楽しんでたり...
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[02:27] <isura> 啓蒙活動・・・ビラを撒かせるとか
[02:27] <ikimania1> 捕まった人たちは当てつけにガンガンやりそうですねぇ・・(笑
[02:27] <p0kopen> そういう摘発用サーフィンソフトどこかが開発してたよーな
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[02:27] <isura> でもどうかな、自分の知り合い関連は外すかもしんないね<摘発
[02:28] <isura> 派閥争いになったりして
[02:28] <ikimania1> わはは
[02:28] <isura> やっぱ、相殺だよ。うん。
[02:29] <M_A_D> でも無くならない。何らかの形では絶対残ると思う。...甘いですかね。
[02:29] <isura> あぁ、無くなるとは思わない
[02:29] <ikimania1> なくならないでしょ?キッパリ
[02:30] <Himself> 著作権保持者にとっては脅威でしょう
[02:30] <M_A_D> 著作保護うんちゃら機能がついた圧縮形式は続々出てきているけど、逆にそういう形式は生き残れないと思う...
[02:30] <ikimania1> そうですね。さっきそう言う話しもあったのです。>M_A_Dさん
[02:31] <M_A_D> そうでしたか。
[02:31] <isura> 市販アプリより厳しい圧縮音楽(笑)
[02:31] <ikimania1> ヘンな暗号とかのせいで聞くこともままならないソフトがありますから。
[02:32] <isura> 使用者の正当な楽しみ方まで奪ってしまうのはペケだね
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[02:32] <ikimania1> MP3はシンプルだったからここまで流行ったのだと思いますよ。
[02:33] <ikimania1> 誰にでも作れるし誰でも聴けた。
[02:33] <Bubblegum> でも、流行り始めた当初は結構手間でしたよね。
[02:33] <ikimania1> 逆にそのせいで違法な行為も多いわけだけど。
[02:33] <Bubblegum> 1曲数時間かけてエンコードしたり。
[02:34] <p0kopen> 寝てる間にエンコしようとしたら途中でハングしてるし・・
[02:34] <Bubblegum> それは悲しい>ハング
[02:34] <ikimania1> へ〜そんな時代もあったのですねぇ。
[02:35] <p0kopen> 吸い出しもすごく時間がかかった
[02:35] <isura> ハングって言えばSCMPXの連続エンコードに失敗する、うち、
[02:35] <Bubblegum> 吸出しなんか等倍じゃないと音飛びしましたね
[02:35] <Himself> 何かCDRみたい(^^;; >音飛び
[02:35] <Bubblegum> SCMPX、トラブル多いなあ(^-^;)
[02:36] <isura> 吸出し、4倍速のCDドライブ持ってる頃、DOS版CD2WAVでやったのが最初かな
[02:36] <ikimania1> でもそれもオープンソースなエンコーダやデコーダーのなせる技ですね。>今日の進化
[02:36] <Bubblegum> 結構最近ですよ、20倍速吸出し、20倍速エンコとか。
[02:36] <Bubblegum> そそ、すごい進歩です。他のフォーマットが追いつけるか。
[02:36] <ikimania1> ヘンな暗号かけて企画を公開すらしてない有料ソフトじゃそうはいかない・・
[02:36] <M_A_D> それで垣根が低すぎるという説もありますが。ソースの中身なんか全然わかんないで使ってます。
[02:36] <Bubblegum> そこでVorbisです(笑)
[02:37] <isura> 権利が絡む・・・要するにビジネスですね
[02:38] <isura> 成熟までにどれだけ時間が掛かるかが、カギかもしれません<vorbis
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[02:38] <Bubblegum> LAMEなんか、F-IISやトムソンを儲けさせるために頑張ってるようなものです。
[02:38] <Bubblegum> MP3.COMも然り。
[02:38] <isura> これに手間取ると、何時の間にか過去の産物になってしまったり。
[02:38] <Bubblegum> AACは少なくともユーザーの間ではそんな感じになってきてますね(^-^;)
[02:39] <isura> 後発なので色々大変だけれど、頑張って欲しいですよね
[02:39] <ikimania1> ですねぇ。
[02:40] <ikimania1> 利益主導主義って言うのかな?そう言う風に走るとやっぱしダメですねぇ・・
[02:41] <isura> 早く、CDexでエンコードできるようにならないかなとか、ひそかな希望
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[02:41] <Bubblegum> 裏で誰かが儲かると何故か損したような気になりますからね(笑)
[02:41] <Bubblegum> あ、CDexからVorbis、出来なくも無いですよ
[02:41] <isura> あ、できますけど^^; それはCD2WAVも一緒なので^^;
[02:41] <Bubblegum> 拡張子がMP3になっちゃいますが。
[02:42] <Bubblegum> ですね(^-^;)
[02:42] <isura> DLL版が出るといっすね^^;
[02:42] <Bubblegum> AudioGrabberなら拡張子指定できるけど。。
[02:42] <isura> ええ、MP3出来ました(笑)
[02:42] <Himself> CD2WAVもいつのまにか、大丈夫になったんですかねえ
[02:42] <Bubblegum> やっぱDLLですね。
[02:43] <isura> いえ、LAMEのフロントエンドとして使えるので、そこにvorbisエンコーダを
[02:43] <Bubblegum> とりあえず大丈夫「らしい」って判断らしいです
[02:43] <isura> つっこみます。
[02:43] <isura> そうすると、拡張子がMP3のOGGファイルが・・・
[02:43] <Bubblegum> 手動リネームしないと(笑)>拡張子
[02:44] New Mode for #tsu by KillingLemon: -b GWwJJHO!*@206.112.42.18
[02:44] <Bubblegum> ともあれ、Vorbisのバージョンアップが楽しみです。
[02:44] <Himself> 何か凄く深刻になってましたが、案外あっさりしてますね>CD2WAV
[02:45] <Bubblegum> 他のリッパーも一斉に公開停止しちゃいましたよね。
[02:45] <Himself> windows, linux, 色々出そうで>Vorbis
[02:45] <isura> ん。というのは公開停止の事ですかね
[02:45] <ikimania1> そですねぇ。この手のソフトは有料のものの方が元気ですねぇ。
[02:45] <Bubblegum> BeOSなんてのも(笑)>Vorbis
[02:45] <ikimania1> 順調にバージョンアップしてますね>CD2WAV
[02:45] <isura> 今じゃCD-Rベンダー自らCloneCDに対応する時代ですよ(笑)
[02:46] <Bubblegum> CloneCDは、酷いよね(^-^;)
[02:46] <Himself> やっぱ自らなんですか 笑 >
[02:46] <Himself> >CloneCD
[02:46] <Bubblegum> あんなもの堂々と売っちゃいかんだろう(^-^;)
[02:47] <p0kopen> 新しいドライブ買うときクローンCD対応してるかどうかがポイントだったし〜(笑)
[02:48] <ikimania1> 一部ではCloneCDの作者嫌いな人多いみたいですね。
[02:48] <p0kopen> そうなんですか〜
[02:48] <Bubblegum> んー、流出尻対策が厳しいからじゃないですか?(^-^;)
[02:48] <ikimania1> http://www.blindread.com
[02:48] <isura> DOS時代のもろぼし☆らむさんは、CD2WAVがこんな事になるなんて
[02:48] <isura> 思いもしなかったに違いない。
[02:48] <Himself> でも、DVDが普及しちゃったらなあ...
[02:48] <ikimania1> ここの作者とかは強烈に嫌ってるみたいですよ
[02:49] <isura> DVDもリージョンフリーの改造ファーム出てましたっけ
[02:49] <Himself> 競合者ですか 笑 >BR
[02:49] <isura> 裏ニュースさんが居たら、色んな話聞けそう
[02:49] <ikimania1> さも、CloneCDは完全なバックアップが取れるような事を言ってるのに腹を立ててる見たいです。
[02:50] <Himself> 裏ニュースってCloneCDの宣伝してるんでしょ 笑
[02:50] <Bubblegum> 単に敵意を抱いてるだけかも(笑)
[02:50] <ikimania1> 良くは分からないのですが完全なバックアップはムリみたいですね。BRの説明を見ると。
[02:51] <ikimania1> それをCloneだけが完璧なバックアップ取れるってウソ付いてるって>BR談
[02:51] <Bubblegum> なるほど、、
[02:51] <Himself> HDDもどんどん安くなってるので、バックアップは楽ですね
[02:51] <isura> そういえば、SAFEDISCなどのプロテクトって、CDの規格のどんな点を
[02:51] <isura> 逆手に取ったものなのでしょう?
[02:52] <isura> この辺、あまり良く知らないんですよ
[02:52] <ikimania1> エラーをわざと入れてるのです>Safe
[02:52] <isura> ECC/EDCですか
[02:53] <ikimania1> 普通一般のMMC対応ドライブはエラーを自動的に修正して読み込み/書き込みします。
[02:53] <ikimania1> 一部のドライブはRAWモードでそれを書き込む事が出来ます。
[02:54] <isura> じゃあアレですか、PS版DDRと同じような?
[02:54] <ikimania1> CloneCDがドライブを選ぶのはそのためです。
[02:54] <ikimania1> そうです。
[02:54] <isura> あ、わっかりました。どうもです。
[02:54] <Bubblegum> φ(..)メモメモ
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[02:55] <gtd> 詳しいですねぇφ(..)メモメモ
[02:55] <isura> これが前から疑問だったんですよ
[02:55] <ikimania1> 著作権保護の意味合いもあるみたいですね。>エラー自動修正
[02:55] <isura> フロッピーのプロテクトからすれば、あまちゃんですね。
[02:55] <isura> コピーできなければ十分プロテクトですが
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[02:58] <isura> 今日はいつものまったりと、一味違い増すねえ
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[02:58] <Bubblegum> いつもはマッタリですか。
[02:58] <Himself> うーん、ギャラリーも騒いでますから 笑
[02:58] <p0kopen> すごく勉強になります〜
[02:58] <Bubblegum> う(^-^;)
[02:59] <Bubblegum> 入りづらい話題ばかりか(^-^;)
[02:59] <isura> 毎日のように人居ると思うんで、日を改めて来てみると分かります(^^;)
[02:59] <Bubblegum> ん、なんかあちこちのMP3関連サイトに宣伝してあったんで
[03:00] <Bubblegum> 思わず衝動的に来てしまったのです(^-^;)
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[03:00] <isura> 飛び入り参加と言うのは意外性があって楽しいです
[03:00] <M_A_D> 同じく(^^;>Bubblegumさん
[03:00] <Bubblegum> そういうのは私だけなんでしょうか・・・と思ったら居た(笑)
[03:00] <isura> 私が主催なら歓迎ですね
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[03:01] <bgc004040> 今回は逆にいつも宣伝してありそうなところに全く宣伝が無くて気づいたのはついさっきでした
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[03:01] <Himself> ええ、そうですね。早い時間にいたmuthaさんとか
[03:01] ikimania1(~unkown@ips-pro-gw.akaselan.co.jp) has joined channel #tsu
[03:01] <Himself> sssさんは、spacechatで落ちちゃったけど 笑
[03:02] New Mode for #tsu by KillingLemon: +v ikimania1
[03:02] <Bubblegum> MUTHAさんはすぐに落ちちゃいましたね
[03:02] New Mode for #tsu by ChanServ: +i
[03:02] <ikimania1> ぬぬ・・・?
[03:02] <ikimania1> 何が起こったのですか?
[03:02] <Bubblegum> なにか?
[03:02] <M_A_D> ?
[03:02] <ikimania1> しかし今日は盛り上がりましたねぇ。。
[03:02] <Himself> ですね〜。
[03:03] <M_A_D> 今回は来させていただいて自分のスキルの低さを再認識しました(^^;
[03:03] <isura> 有意義な時間を過ごせました
[03:03] <gtd> 皆さん詳しいんで驚きました。
[03:03] <Bubblegum> CloneCDが欲しくなりました(笑)
[03:03] <M_A_D> ええ、でもすごく有意義でしたよ。
[03:03] New Mode for #tsu by KillingLemon: -m
[03:03] <Kaorin> 難しい話で会話にはあまり参加できなかったけど、勉強になりました。
[03:04] <bgc004040> とりあえずvorbis試してみようと思いました
[03:04] <M_A_D> IRCの使い方もとりあえず判ったし...(実は初IRC)
[03:04] <prxlike> 見てばかりでしたが、勉強になりました〜
[03:04] <p0kopen> 今からいろんなのを試してみます〜
[03:04] <Bubblegum> 私もmIRCは始めてです
[03:05] <ikimania1> んじゃ常連さんになてくださいよ(笑>M_A_Dさん
[03:05] <M_A_D> 有難うございます。とりあえず生IP出さない方法から学んできますね(^^;
[03:05] <isura> あたし生ですが(笑)。
[03:06] <p0kopen> おでも〜
[03:06] <Bubblegum> 私も生です。気にしません(笑)
[03:06] <ikimania1> いや、恨まれるような事が無ければ平気でしょう。(笑
[03:06] <M_A_D> どきどき..
[03:06] <Bubblegum> 発言しすぎだから恨まれるかも・・・(^-^;)
[03:06] <isura> 居住区ばれて困る事は無いもので^^;
[03:06] <Himself> わはは、大丈夫ですよ 笑
[03:06] <ikimania1> 私も生だったんですがみんな付けてるので付けてるだけです。(笑
[03:07] <M_A_D> 勤め先なので突きとめないでください(爆
[03:07] <Bubblegum> 見ちゃった(笑)>居住区
[03:07] <M_A_D> ははは(^^;
[03:07] <Bubblegum> 見るなと言われると…
[03:07] <Himself> まあ、上着みたいな物ですね 笑
[03:07] <isura> すぐばれます。モロですから(笑)>Bubblegum
[03:08] <Bubblegum> フフフ・・・(笑)
[03:08] <ikimania1> 宣伝するときはどうなるかとドキドキしてましたが・・
[03:08] <ikimania1> 結構盛り上がって良かったです。。
[03:08] <isura> ただ、アレっすね。遠く離れた友人のマシンを足がかりにさせて貰えたら、偽装可能
[03:08] <Himself> ははは...昨日の夜も結構宣伝しました
[03:09] <Bubblegum> 宣伝、5つぐらい見ましたよ(笑)
[03:09] <ikimania1> ウフ・・
[03:09] <ikimania1> 怒られるんじゃないかとドキドキ・・・
[03:10] <gtd> 昨日はikimaniaさん頑張ってましたからねぇ(笑)
[03:10] <Bubblegum> タイダルはあんな状態だし恐かったでしょう(^-^;)
[03:10] <isura> 嵐の後で良かったね^^;
[03:11] <Bubblegum> しかし、本気で閉鎖考えてるんだろうか・・
[03:11] <ikimania1> あ、チャットで管理人さんに了解取ったので大丈夫でした。いい人で良かったぁ・・
[03:11] <Himself> 結局tidalwaveは大丈夫なのかな
[03:11] <Bubblegum> 良い人?それは誤解です。絶対(笑)
[03:11] <isura> 辞めないに3000点
[03:11] <isura> 誤解でしょう(笑)
[03:11] <ikimania1> ええ、全然元気だよって言ってました>TIDALさん
[03:12] <Bubblegum> 楽しんでるとか言ってたでしょ(^-^;)
[03:12] <ikimania1> いい人+格好いいもつけといてって>TIDALさん
[03:13] <ikimania1> やり方もフォローもまずかったって反省してるような事は言ってましたね>TIDALさん
[03:13] <Bubblegum> うーん、今回妙に神妙なんだよなあ。。
[03:13] <isura> 大きくなると大変ですね。自分が偉くなったわけじゃないのに発言だけ大きく取られちゃう。
[03:14] <Himself> 前は、なかったんですか。そういうのは
[03:14] <Himself> いちゃもんつける人いるでしょう。特に、音質評価だので 笑
[03:14] <Bubblegum> 似たようなことはなんどかあったけど、
[03:14] <Bubblegum> 常に笑い飛ばしてましたね。
[03:14] <isura> でも、今問題掲示板を見ると、今回は状況かなり違うっぽいのは見て取れます
[03:15] <Bubblegum> 昔は「つぶやき」の方がメインっぽかたし。
[03:16] ikimania1 is now known as dolunga
[03:16] <Himself> え、今のメインは?! 笑
[03:16] <Bubblegum> んー、MP3ニュースがあって、その下に同じぐらいつぶやきがありました(笑)
[03:17] <isura> 未だに特定人物に非をなすりつける、どーしようもない書きこみあるなぁ、、
[03:17] <Bubblegum> 全ログ公開しろとか言ってますよね(^-^;)勘弁して欲しい(^-^;)
[03:17] gtd is now known as gtd_mesi
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[03:18] <M_A_D> 今初めて訪れました<tidalwave> ブックマークブックマーク。
[03:18] <isura> 蒸し返してもどーしようもないよ
[03:18] <Bubblegum> なんと、始めて(笑)
[03:19] <Bubblegum> 閉鎖でもされた日にゃあ、えらいことですよ
[03:20] <isura> 可能性としては低いんじゃないかなって思います
[03:20] <Bubblegum> うん・・そうであって欲しい・・・
[03:20] <dolunga> あ
[03:21] <isura> 場が収まって「さあこれから」って時に、また蒸し返されるんだよね
[03:21] <Bubblegum> というか
[03:22] <isura> 今問題掲示板の現状・・・これはWMもヘコむよ
[03:22] <Bubblegum> じゅげむ氏自ら混乱させてますね。
[03:22] <Bubblegum> 彼はいつもあの手ですから。
[03:22] <isura> もう彼を引き合いに出す必要無いんじゃないかな。私見だけれど。
[03:23] <Bubblegum> 相手しちゃいけませんよね。
[03:23] <isura> わざわざ取り沙汰すから、消えかけた火がまたついちゃうんだよ
[03:23] <Himself> 常連ですか>じゅげむ
[03:23] <isura> 少し前から、かなりの
[03:23] <Bubblegum> ここ数ヶ月急に現れて発言しまくりのヒトです
[03:24] <isura> 誰かが思ってること、早いうちに表明していれば状況違ったかもしれません
[03:24] <Himself> なるほど 笑 >[147] んー 投稿日時:2000/06/13(Tue) 11:46:01
[03:24] <Himself>
[03:24] <Himself> 今回は荒れそうで荒れないねぇ。>表の掲示板(^-^;
[03:24] <Himself> タイダルの掲示板って役に立ってるのかな。
[03:24] <Himself> じゅげむって人、ここ最近、急に書き込みまくりだしたという印象があるん
[03:24] <Himself> だけど
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[03:25] <isura> ^^;
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[03:25] <isura> 主催者が蹴られたよ^^;
[03:25] <Bubblegum> みんなあまり相手にしてなかったんだよね(^-^;)
[03:25] <Himself> やってもた(^^;;
[03:25] <Bubblegum> ありゃりゃ(^-^;)
[03:26] <Himself> 今のは、悪い例です(^^;; 真似しないで下さい 笑
[03:27] <Himself> でも、これ見ても、漠然とした中傷しかないですね。
[03:27] <Bubblegum> MADさんタイダルに見入ってますね(笑)
[03:27] <isura> つぶやきのURLが流出して、それから問題化しちゃったんですよね
[03:28] <Bubblegum> ん、発言自体は対した問題じゃないのかもしれません。
[03:28] <M_A_D> ははは(笑
[03:28] <Bubblegum> 裏でコソコソってのが気に入らない、ってだけじゃないのかなあ・・
[03:28] <isura> 本当に問題だったかどうかでなく、そこがクローズアップされちゃった
[03:29] <isura> 極端にね
[03:29] <Bubblegum> 結局DebMasterは何者なんだろう。
[03:29] <Himself> ふむふむ
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[03:30] <M_A_D> こんどじっくりもろもろ見よっと<tidalwave>。騒動の件も含めて...
[03:30] <Bubblegum> 騒動以外の方が有益ですよ(笑)
[03:30] <isura> 最初、WebMasterは問題の(相対的な)大きさを見誤ったのでしょうか
[03:31] <M_A_D> たうぜんです(笑)
[03:31] <Bubblegum> みたいですね
[03:31] <isura> つぶやきのURIを移動して、さらに話が続いてたんです
[03:31] New Mode for #tsu by ChanServ: +v Himself
[03:31] <isura> それも見つかっちゃったんですね。
[03:31] <M_A_D> そろそろ失礼します。今日は有意義な時間
[03:31] <Bubblegum> 逃げたときは流石に驚きましたよ(^-^;)
[03:31] <M_A_D> 本当に有難うございましたm(_ _)m
[03:31] <Himself> はい、おやすみなさい〜
[03:31] <isura> はーい、お疲れ様です
[03:31] <Bubblegum> おやすみなさいい(^_^)/~
[03:31] <M_A_D> それでは。
[03:31] <prxlike> おつかれさまです〜
[03:32] <p0kopen> おやすみなさ〜〜い
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[03:32] <Kaorin> おやすみんさい
[03:33] <Himself> ていうかつぶやきが別ページになったのも知らんかったです(^^;;
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[03:33] <Bubblegum> 裏つぶ知ってた連中は、ほとんどストーカーみたいな奴らなので(^-^;)<自分含
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[03:35] <Bubblegum> 昔みたいに表で堂々と言ってれば冗談で済んだのに。。
[03:36] <isura> 本当にへこんじゃったっぽいけれど、望みは無くしてないみたいですね
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[03:36] <Kaorin> こんばんわ
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[03:36] <isura> 40分と少し前の書き込みを見る限りでは、
[03:38] <Bubblegum> これが本音なのかなあ・・
[03:38] <Himself> この「公としてのTidalwave」っていうのが大変ですね〜
[03:38] <Bubblegum> もしかしたら
[03:39] <Bubblegum> 本格的な商用サイトに変貌する為の布石なのかも(^-^;)
[03:39] <Bubblegum> 逆もありえるけど(笑)
[03:41] <isura> とりあえず今まで通り続いて欲しいな
[03:41] <Himself> その辺綺麗にしておこうってことかな
[03:42] <isura> で、問題は問題で片付けとくと。
[03:42] <Bubblegum> んー、いろいろ言ってるけど、腹の内は絶対見せないと思うんですよね。
[03:42] <isura> それは出来ないだろう。あたしにもムリだ(笑
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[03:48] <prxlike> あ、きりはなされたぁ(;´Д`)
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[03:49] <isura> あらま
[03:49] <prxlike> ヽ(´ー`)ノ
[03:49] <isura> 画面見てない間にいっぱい落ちたのね
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[03:52] <isura> さて、最近トシなものですから、、そろそろ就寝します
[03:52] <Himself> はいはい、おやすみなさい
[03:52] <isura> 次回のネタ楽しみにしていますね
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[03:52] <p0kopen> おやすみなさ〜〜〜い
[03:52] <Himself> はいはい、おやすみなさい
[03:52] <isura> ではまた、いずれ〜
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[03:53] <bgc004040> 私も失礼します。
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[03:53] <Himself> おやすみなさい
[03:54] <prxlike> つられて寝ます(笑)
[03:54] <dolunga> ふふん♪盛り上がって良かった・・
[03:54] <prxlike> おやすみぃ
[03:54] <dolunga> おやすみん♪
[03:54] <p0kopen> おやすみなさ〜〜〜い
[03:54] <Himself> 良かった 笑
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[03:55] <dolunga> ぐふん。。
[03:55] <Himself> それじゃ、私もこれで〜 また
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[03:55] <dolunga> おやすみん♪
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[03:56] <Bubblegum> 寝おちしてました(・_;)
[03:57] <Bubblegum> 今日は楽しかったです。またいずれお邪魔させてください。
[03:57] <dolunga> 又来てくださいです〜('-' )/
[03:57] <Bubblegum> おやすみなさいい(・_;)/~
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[04:00] <Kaorin> さて、寝ますです。
[04:00] <Kaorin> おやすみなさいですー
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[07:02] nest_GSh(~nest_GSh@mail.mastec-ei-ga.com) has joined channel #tsu
[07:02] <nest_GSh> ろしひひもせそなはぬみふんさかりふならくえのららうよぬのなた
[07:02] <nest_GSh> まちふしろちのしゆおもぬむめめよひそすてにたわそくんきまのひ
[07:03] <nest_GSh> んこわふなるわんかもえるさゆふわふくしるはめこぬいつぬけいい
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[07:03] nest_Nbl(~nest_Nbl@mail.mastec-ei-ga.com) has joined channel #tsu
[07:03] <nest_Nbl> むほみひふまむたもひひのけのきたやあれねさてはふれめへろねほ
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[07:03] <nest_Nbl> きこすよゆるぬねこしおややすせろふえろねふきれきもよるちめつ
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[07:25] nest_EDb(~nest_EDb@mail.mastec-ei-ga.com) has joined channel #tsu
[07:25] <nest_EDb> ふいううさおかほおなをてもわぬけついまひもわふうるつきぬんみ
[07:25] <nest_EDb> のふめふほわみやひやさはけんぬまけるむらななゆいぬみとほくて
[07:25] <nest_EDb> たむんうせほあをてふもほきろへほふゆねせへをめとんさおとりし
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[07:26] nest_QkX(~nest_QkX@mail.mastec-ei-ga.com) has joined channel #tsu
[07:26] <nest_QkX> よししなすさりるをぬいれおまぬれけゆのきのわきやいはほせちら
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[07:26] <nest_QkX> しけおねへちめにしむをすふえわおをかれぬすとなてけぬをよやそ
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[07:44] nest_wFh(~nest_wFh@mail.mastec-ei-ga.com) has joined channel #tsu
[07:44] <nest_wFh> にやよぬえきのしぬせおそほふゆえいけむたんるつとまへくねうや
[07:44] <nest_wFh> まのはにあへへのるからをとにひこはへつしをつきたゆゆわをそあ
[07:44] <nest_wFh> もんのそなのろええよけれやへつちよろをこけろひそすつかこちと
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[07:46] nest_zuo(~nest_zuo@mail.mastec-ei-ga.com) has joined channel #tsu
[07:46] <nest_zuo> わぬつみやたたさなわきふあぬはのにはこねりへぬりむさすえめま
[07:46] <nest_zuo> たまくめちろえみきねへすおほやまくさこちもうをさろみにけもこ
[07:46] <nest_zuo> りおるいよさわれれおてのちねくきくたちちむかとまちちちよのお
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[07:46] <nest_bvj> れとあかつれいにせはらよめををうたたもなやとゆかやへまるほう
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[07:46] <nest_bvj> うはぬえみりをむたすすくえんきううにつよろきしむしあたれるん
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[07:52] <gtd_mesi> おやすみなさい
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[07:58] <p0kopen> おちま〜す
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[13:05] prxlike__lp is now known as prxlike
[13:05] <prxlike> ヽ(´ー`)ノ
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[13:05] <prxlike_slp> 落ち
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[23:01] <Kaorin> こばわー
[23:01] <Kaorin> 作業〜
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[23:17] <edvander> hello
[23:21] <edvander> 麒麟
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[23:40] <Kaorin_work> テスd
[23:41] <dolunga> dd
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